I am starting this thread because I watched the first "Tobacco Wars" documentary and my first, and most prevalent, thought as I watched was, "THANK GOD for cigarettes."  They kill how many people a year?  By golly, they are perhaps the single most efficient means of population control.  Nobody can deny that we have way too many people on this planet!!!!  We have created islands in the Pacific Ocean made from plastic debris.  Vast swaths of ecosystems have been annihilated.  Human beings are a virus, a cancer, a plague upon the Earth.  It stands to reason that maybe cigarettes are not an evil, but an angel.  

 

Please hear me out - - - I do not intend to sabotage people's quit with this post and I am not attempting to be a troll.  I want to express my thoughts in order that I may support someone else who is experiencing what I experience.

 

Whenever I have quit smoking in the past (and it happened, is happening, to me in this quit as well) I get a recurrent internal vision of putting a bullet through my brain.  I would never, ever do this in real life.  Suicide is not an option.  Seriously, nobody freak out, I'm in it for the long haul.  

 

All reassurances aside, it seems I go through a crisis when I remove the act of smoking from my life.  No longer am I actively and willfully killing myself.  No longer am I living in harmony with my planet.  I am not in harmony because I'm prolonging my greedy, destructive, wasteful, consumer life instead of arresting it.  There is no way to live an environmentally responsible existence in the system as it now exists.  There's no going back...

 

I have chosen not to procreate because I would not thrust an innocent child into his or her inevitable role as a matricidal parasite.  I do not feel our species has earned our place on the planet - or maybe at one point we deserved it but not so much anymore.  

 

Which leads me to wonder - - why am I quitting?  Why?  I don't believe in human life.  I believe in LIFE as a phenomenon - - like breath and beats and beads.  But I care more for the breath and beats of the fungi, the sea birds, the joshua trees, the dolphins and the honey suckle.  But us?  Not so much.  Uh-oh - I am us.  See my conundrum?

 

Guess I was wondering if anyone reading here has ever experienced or pondered something close to this?  It is difficult to express this point of view because 95% of the population has chosen to have children.  And it is even more difficult to post this opinion on a quit smoking site because so many of the people on this board have suffered horrible health consequences or seen/loved a family or friend who has/had to live with a painful, crippling disease.

 

I am posting this here because I don't know where else to pose this point of view.  I just got a therapist but she's not an ex smoker and she has children!!!  :blink: My hope is that someone else has struggled with this particular incongruity and has come to some sort of peace with it.  Also, if one of you old-timers remembers a similar thread maybe you could post the link here?

 

Regardless of ALL THIS, I am immensely grateful to be nicotine/smoke free for 4 and a half months!!!  

you get a star and a window seat....these are not good things....but I will say you have an argument...

 

but IF you are correct why wouldn't you populate the world with more little planet killers with your point of view, given enough of them or enough time they could take over or invent something to help remove the people from the planet?

 

so maybe you are saying this to be redirected back to the mothership..... its not coming, like you said we are not a good thing, so why would another planet want to take us back to their place....I mean they already stole enough of us from 1950's till now, proded and poked and planted tracking devices in our heads...can only study mice so long and you know everything about them...maybe the smoking experiment is ending since we are all quiting.....bye aliens...have a good trip home...don't forget to take Bat and Meathead with you....

 

Sorry is my rambling making little sense? or just a little sense?  Well its just a dumb point of view either way because Tracey is taking the mothership back to the island soon enough....

 

But getting to the idea of smoking is a reason to kill off people is like saying a disease was placed here for the same reason...aids to kill sexually active, measles for dumb kids, ebolli for Africans...and using that argument would mean a higher power thinking this out...not fate...fate cant think and act and make a people killing solution...it would be a God type, a creator.....well the creator already said he loves us...so that cant be....

 

So what next, if not fate, not the creator, not a being just alittle more developed than us, what? Random gases in the universe which morphed past the tadpole to frog stage, all the way past human to some evolutionary thing which is just spirit like....so in evolution there is something higher than human... not alien being with body but spirit like....see there is the downfall with the evolution idea, we are the top, here? 100 gazillion billion years and on earth we are top. no proof or anything replacing us soon, haven't met a woman with three boobs, so I can say we aren't getting better and you say we are bad. You started this with saying we are a disease to the planet...yet we eat anything we want and control anything we find...where is the higher being that morphed past us to spirit....arrogance that we are the top in the evolution misconception, you proved it by showing we will eventually have to eat each other when we kill the entire planet. How could that be the end result of evolution, which reports things improved and adapted to be a better being. Hell elephants disprove it. That big and a super nose but no thumbs..

 

Anyways move over in that seat, think I just earned a star and a lick at the window too.

or...how we think and view is altogether

an illusion

 

mental play

 

so better to just do one good deed every day

at our kindergarten level of thinking

 

and that might be best thing for now

Ok I feel this a thread I can confidently enter :)  I want to deal with the quit bits first.

 

Low moods or swinging moods can easily be part of the quit. They do pass but it's good you have taken extra steps to protect yourself.

 

I could smoke because we are all living too long and poisioning the planet, feels like a point but honestly my lovely it's still your inner junkie trying to create a scenario whereby it would be ok to smoke. It's just a different way but the same as if I get stressed it's a coping factor. There is never a reason to smoke, nothing justifies it. Go the other way in your argument, do you feel all those that pick/produce and make in factory settings people are well treated and that they are being respectful to their environment? The answer in some cases will surely be no. Go beyond where Bakon has gone and say, does the population cull validate war, terrorism, malnourishment as standard in some countries ....this kills millions too and is no more acceptable. 

 

The rest though, I get it. We are killing the planet. I am horrified at oceans full of debris, landfills that could have been in a large part avoided. We poison land and sea and focus on money with little thought for how we will eat that in days of the future! Then I stop and think. I know a large circle of (possible weirdos lol) people who are as passionate. Not everyone is going around behaving as we describe, I for one am certainly not :)

 

I also did have two kids but I do totally agree with your point there non the less. I will never regret it but we are overpopulated for sure. However this made me start to think a different way which I would enjoy sharing. I decided I would share my passion for the planet with them. We recycle a lot as standard and grow some food in our garden too. I teach them to be respectful to animals and despite how young they are we have discussed things like carbon footprints and validity of forests being protected etc etc. I don't think having children means you are contributing to the whole problem if they are educated and can actually enter the world and be part of the solution. A step further I don't think leaving the planet empty is the answer either.

 

I understand how this thinking can feel and I also respect some people will never give it a thought but I decided to change the thinking....

 

What if I told people how I thought? One person cannot control the world or change it, but multiple people doing what they can will surely make the change slowly but certainly. So I send two fully educated children into the world. I educate properly at least two others (my sister and mum) on the validity of recycling from their home. I contribute (one of many) to send a friend to peru and columbia who is there to support and help inlcuding vet care for neutering animals to stop an issue there. Every house I live in I plant at least 1 tree (10 so far) and ensure I visit local forests and contribute to their funds etc etc. My point is not what I do but it helps to explain there are things every single one of us can do. We don't need to feel helpless about it.  In addition I am part of a larger group who believe in energy and we regularly send healing to the planet and all the people on it, the idea being that gradually the tone and consciousness of the planet will be raised (via reiki circles in my case but others do this in different ways). 

 

So in answer to your thought, I believe you can be more in harmony with your planet by quitting. You don't want to even consider how those chemicals and the cig butts contributed to polluting. Nor will you need as much medical intervention as a bonus. You will live a healthier life but more than that, you can choose to do things which will help. You will have more time to research those things too. You will have more money to contribute to others, should you wish too, that are doing the bits you can't. 

 

My weird bit as you asked :)  I don't think we should be sad we are here at this time. I feel this is a very influential time for this place and I feel honoured to be a part of that. Doing nothing and taking in the totally mind controlling media was not healthy for me and left me in a constant state of mediocre to sad. You can make choices for yourself not to poison your mind with things that do not benefit you and go searching for the good and help that instead. You can marvel at the teenager who discovered a system for removing debris from the ocean floors that could literally be a game changer with the right funding one day, that made me smile for days! A huge number of the next generation are learning right now the power of caring for our home, it wasn't always so. If each of us influences our circle the pay it forward benefits would be IMMENSE. 

 

Is it possible the benefit is in influencing what can be changed rather than focusing on what can't be? Food for thought for sure. 

 

In summary I love that we will always come across people with similar thinking and concerns. Follow your passions and it kinda works that a supportive tribe will start to appear with you, much like the community for quitting here. 

I feel at a total loss of why I am here, because I can't have children. I think it's one beautiful thing that animals and human alike can do, nothing more natural than that.

 

I am still searching for my purpose in life, why am I here, what have I got to give, I certainly am not creative, have no skills to change the world or invent something momentous to mankind so what then? I am religious in my own mind but cannot be a leader to change people's views to be kinder or less selfish and harmful in the world.

 

I certainly am not bitter or angry - just searching for an answer and one day it may come or it may not.

 

I plod along doing my little bit in my own way, probably not enough but it is what it is.

 

I put trust in mankind that they are smart enough to counteract all the dumb stuff we do but we probably won't be about to see it and leaving children behind in an unsure world is indeed scary.

 

I could go on about I recycle etc but then I do more harm in flying frequently etc so what do you do, I for one want to stay around just to see what happens for as long as I can and quitting smoking was apart of that.

 

For all the horrors in this world, there are some amazing things happening and to see, experience, people, nature, oceans, universe, kindness and love x

Wow! a lot of thought, theories, and speculation here from you guys. I'm very impressed!

 

What will happen to mankind? Can he parish and be wiped off this plant? Yes

 

By what?

 

The Sun, In approximately 800,000 years the sun will flare up as it is burning out roasting the earth before it collapses in to a black hole and pulls all the planets in to it or a electromagnetic pulse from the sun could render the worlds electric grid useless and I read where 75% of the worlds population would die off within 2 weeks from starvation and/or exposure to the weather. Either way, Game over! 

 

A microscopic virus, with people traveling around the world via land, sea and air it would probably take a couple of months to get everybody infected with a new unknown virus if air born. Look at ebola, stars and bird flu and those were slow moving because it was transmitted by touch but a new air born virus with no known cure, it would be devastating. Game over!

 

A asteroid just a couple miles in diameter, Look at what wiped the dinosaurs out. If the shock wave that went around the world didn't get ya, the global winter that followed from the dust in the atmosphere blocking the sun out for a few years would. Game over!

 

A eruption of a super volcano, If just one of the six super volcano's erupted, it would basically have the same effect as a asteroid. Game over!

 

Climate change, Mankind and mother earth both are responsible i think. The earth is always changing but mankind just intensifies it I think by polluting the air, land and seas. Climate change brings floods, droughts, sever weather, ocean rise, heat waves, and cold spells but this is a topic of big debate so i won't go any farther on this but if let go unchecked eventually, Game over!

 

Now, Mankind himself, we are the only species that leaves a carbon foot print, (20% of the population in the world make up 85% of the worlds pollution), We strive for a better and longer life by inventing things, building things, making things without worrying about the long term affects on the people around us and the planet. We put all kinds of drugs in our bodies from coffee to preservatives to medicines (look at all the crazy side affects on the commercials) from when we are born. We invent weapons of mass destruction. Scientists have found the "god partial" (the smallest piece of known matter to man) and are trying to duplicate it with a machine 26 miles in diameter (the biggest machine made by man), scary! We kill each other over our beliefs to the color of our skin to where we live. We are greedy and selfish (me, me, me) and the list goes on and on! Game over, possibly?

 

So tearyeyedwoman, there are many ways we could be wiped off the face of this planet, I only touched on a few but our brain is a very incredible thing if we use it right and learn from our mistakes so there is hope!

 

We need a lot of work to be worthy inhabitants of this planet but if we work together as a planet I think we will be around for a long long time and be able to avoid the things that can wipe us out as a civilization. It will not be easy but WE can do it together as a civilization!

 

Did I just type all that?  :blink:

Keep it up guys... you'll have my assignment completed in no time   :dirol:

Keep it up guys... you'll have my assignment completed in no time   :dirol:

what ya working on, can we help? Or was it a joke...sometimes I miss those. x

what ya working on, can we help? Or was it a joke...sometimes I miss those. x

 

Sorry I was joking... I should behaves  :girl_crazy:

Thanks peeps for addressing my maybe just a little bit off topic topic.  REZ your post cleared things up best for me so thank you!  Why worry about this crap when destruction is inevitable????  Guess I just get sad that I'm not gonna be boarding any star ship enterprises any time soon.  

 

"For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity. 20All go to the same place. All came from the dust and all return to the dust."

 

Yeeeeah!!!!

Interesting.

What I meant was,

 

All we can do is learn from the past, enjoy and make the most out of the present, and plan for the future and everything will be ok! :)

Hmmm, I often wonder who we really are to question things, we are but a small ant in the bigger scheme of things, when you look at the size of the cosmos , we have no idea what or who is out there, where anything begins or end,"Sophie's World" opens many questions, I love the deeper meaning and would happily have a debate on all things good and bad for the world, we as humans are to blame for the state our planet is in, but who is not to say evolution in another 100 or more so years, creates no waste, humans that can exist on life that we can't even begin to imagine.  Life would be so very very dull if we all followed the same pathway, which is why we all gel together, bouncing ideas around and off each other, some of us create life, it is pre-programmed in us to produce young to continue the cycle of life, do we have a god, some of us believe some of us don't is there life after death, who know!! I certainly would hate to think that when you go that's it, maybe that's the answer, maybe it will all become clear then, "Lucy" another film which for me makes me question, is this all real, if you go deep enough it can become mind blowing, the bigger question amazes me, does "god" come along every now and then and cleanse the planet!  OMG stopping this conversation now or my brain would go into overdrive xx

My hope is that someone else has struggled with this particular incongruity and has come to some sort of peace with it. 

 

Interesting discourse.

 

My dad once told me, when I was a kid, "You know son, humans are the only imperfect thing in this world". He went on to blather about trees and birds and animals, all perfectly doing what they are predestined to do. He was most likely drunk at the time, (he was usually, when he thought he had something profound to instil in me). I thought about that, and agreed. Yes, we have rational thought. We aren't driven completely by biologic/instinctual drives. Through my childish eyes, I pretty much dismissed his rantings, to another, "stupid dadism".

 

As I became older and had grown outside the wonderment of, "full bore ahead" of experiencing life, and had become aware of what I can be, I thought more about it.

 

I think what my dad should have included was, we are "higher up on the food chain", because of our ability to choose.

 

I have the responsibility for my being what I will. My personal awareness, hasn't always been pleasant. But it is mine, and mine to accept and to choose, what to do with. That's all I have control of. I make decisions from following my beliefs, to appease my sense of responsibility. I try to continue in this vane.

 

My take on this.

Blimey.

 

Somebody call Stephen Hawking...or maybe Proust.

 

An interesting discussion.

 

I am guessing that all of the problems cited would be used by some as justification for continued work on broadening our horizons. The planet, for one reason or another is statistically going to die. It is a mathematical certainty.

 

As a species, we exist to procreate. The biological imperative I believe that it is called. An argument can be made that it is therefore inevitable that we will look to populate additional planets, solar systems, dimensions etc. it is the best way to ensure survival, as for all of the reasons cited earlier in the thread, this planet will at one time or another not work.

 

All species have evolved in response to environmental threat, so perhaps over population is a necessity to drive evolution?

 

All too complex for me! I'm off for a lie-down.

this is all way too much thinking for me...and goes way beyond "living in the present moment"...which is where I belong or I will go loony worrying about what will happen to the planet and what happens after we die..I just can't do it.   Honestly...if I allow myself to get wrapped up in the future..I immediately want to run away from it...

 

 

All I can do is take personal responsibility...recycle, sprinkle a little love and kindness wherever i go... just do my part.

 

 Be the change.

Survival is a biological imperative. Killing myself in a quick or slow fashion takes quite a bit of denial, delusion, and despair. (Alliteration, yeah!) Smoking is another one of those things my little pea pickin addictive brain grabbed hold of in order to self destruct. Choosing to not smoke, for me, means I am now more in harmony with nature because nature is also about life, procreation, a natural order, and survival.

 

Humans have become the only? species to ignore the obvious (scarcity of fuels, water, arable land, overpopulation, etc.) and act like three year olds in front of a candy bowl with the belief that it will never be empty. Smoking is, I suppose, comparable, on a more individual level, in that it takes a sustained effort and total delusion on my part to continue to do it. Addiction is absolutely amazing.

 

I do agree that dramatically decreasing population is probably the only one thing that might halt our present downward slide into the abyss. Humans won't do this, though. Prediction is that by 2040 world population will double to 14 billion or so.  If we're (read "human race" there) lucky, the Spanish influenza or something "better"will return. 50+ million dead in a very short time. Most effective plague ever.